Unprovoked and unchallenged, Robert Stacy McCain has been harassing Charles Johnson of LittleGreenFootballs relentlessly over the past ten days—twenty posts and counting since September 15th and the archive of hatred and verbose distortions runs deeper. Yesterday, seemingly unsatisfied at the breadth and depth the coverage of Johnson’s evils had received from his own blog, he launched a new outlet for seething against him, carved out of HotAir with its administrators’ approval. From McCain’s inauguratorory remarks, we learn that creating the Green Room—as he colorfully calls it—had become necessary because both at his blog and at HotAir, “commenters have been hijacking every thread to discuss the disastrous self-immolation of Charles Johnson.” That HotAir and the Other McCain are plagued by hordes of commenters who care for nothing but trashing Johnson—to the point of needing a separate forum custom-made for this purpose—speaks more about these blogs’ readership and appeal than it does about Johnson.
But let me speak about Charles Johnson for a minute. He does not need me to defend him, but if I keep silent, a few facts may remain understated: For one thing, he never started a blog war with Robert Stacy McCain. All he did was note—in a discreet comment at his site—that Stephen Green of Vodkapundit was promoting McCain, whom Charles rightfully labeled a white supremacist. When Green responded with a passive-aggressive post making excuses for McCain, Charles provided sources to back his assertion. See that? Only two hyperlinks in the next-to-last sentence, because two posts, mainly consisting of outside sources and direct quotes—the most damning ones from McCain himself—were enough to establish McCain’s racist bona fides. Truth is succinct, truth is crisp. It does not seethe, it does not prevaricate, it is not affected.
What McCain has responded with are long-winded heaps of nothingness, shot through the ether in rapid succession. Does he ever address the direct quotes and facts Charles has laid out? No. Here is an example of what he does instead:
Johnson’s attack on me at LGF depends largely on convincing his readers that, because I am an obstreperous Southerner . . . well, nudge, nudge. You know how those people are.
Except when they aren’t.…People who hate the South—and I think Charles Johnson might fit that description—will not permit you the leisure of merely saying, “Well, we’re not all bad.”…
Charles Johnson was not [at the Tea Party]. I was. And so were lots of people from Virginia, North Carolina, Texas, Georgia… oh, wait. I forgot. All Southerners are ignorant racists, right, Charles?
One dull, pathetic lie that is…. Charles never said or suggested any of the above. He merely related a simple fact to his readers—that Robert Stacy McCain has been a member of the neo-confederate League of the South. Does McCain dispute this much? No. In fact, he digresses:
[T]he point is that I was pursuing my professional duty when I first came into contact with the League of the South, and of my subsequent involvement, there are many things that people think they know—on the basis of SPLC reports—which are not necessarily true. And there are many, many thinks [sic] that people do not know.
To what mysteries do you allude, Robert? Are you a member or not? Have you ever been? The League’s secessionist intentions are a matter of public record, as is her pro-slavery stance. One of her cofounders, Thomas Fleming, makes a cameo appearance in my exposé of Serge Trifkovic, where some of his blatantly racist pronouncements are quoted in full—no one can accuse me of taking him out of context when he openly defends the Klan and rejects the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. So, Robert, care to elaborate on that subsequent involvement of yours in the League? Neither do you deny being a member of it nor do you wish to utter anything unflattering about it. Then why the caveat when you link to fellow-Leaguers (emphasis mine)?
Meanwhile, keeping in mind that a link is not necessarily an endorsement, League of the South blogger Old Rebel offers his own idiosyncratic [sic] of Chronic Degenerative Lizardmania: [Deranged screed follows—ed.]
Do hedge your bets, Robert. Leave those modifiers dangling too—they make it easier to claim later that you’ve been misunderstood in whichever way it conveniences you to be misunderstood….
In response to my husband—the “an anonymous a—hole”—who calls him out on the friendship and business relation with Richard Spencer of TakiMagazine, McCain retorts:
Richard Spencer, as I have written before, is a young radical intellectual who has read too much Nietzsche. Should he be shunned therefore?
Oh dear…. I will gladly capitulate to Godwin’s Law if it means pointing out that Hitler started out as a young radical intellectual who had read too much Nietzsche (and Schopenhauer). Spencer, McCain’s friend and intermittent source of paychecks, is a notorious white nationalist—he will freely reveal himself as such if you meet him in person; at least he has to me and to MPH, the “anonymous a—hole.”
More evasions from McCain:
[Johnson’s] attack on me at LGF is a classic “ransom note method” attack—the assembling of this, that and the other to create a collage, like a kidnapper glueing [sic] together words clipped from magazines.
Pretty vivid imagery there… of a collage… stitched together from quotes and facts. The horror! But who would dare ransom this quote from McCain?
[T]he media now force interracial images into the public mind and a number of perfectly rational people react to these images with an altogether natural revulsion. The white person who does not mind transacting business with a black bank clerk may yet be averse to accepting the clerk as his sister-in-law, and THIS IS NOT RACISM, no matter what Madison Avenue, Hollywood and Washington tell us.
This, from someone who feels reluctant to shun Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and other assorted bigots, primarily out of strategic considerations:
You cannot build a successful political movement by a process of subtraction, and building a winning coalition is impossible if you organize on losing principles. Allowing your opposition to dictate the terms of acceptable discourse is a losing principle, as Jeff Goldstein has striven to explain. Ergo, Johnson manifests a defeatist tendency when he pronounces Geller and Spencer “untouchables” because they attended a European conference whose promoters included some unsavory characters.
Robert, I assure you: If only you could discriminate less against people of different skin color, you would safely afford to discriminate more against would-be allies of stained character or reputation. And on aggregate, the numbers in your winning coalition would not suffer one bit from this shift—trust me, I’ve done the math. McCain further writes:
The point is that, in attacking me as a “neo-Confederate,” Charles Johnson arrogantly supposes that the facts he knows (or rather, believes he knows, as there has been so much misinformation propagated over the years) are the only facts that matter, and that whatever facts he doesn’t know must be irrelevant.
This is where the Hayekian insight comes in handy. Friedrich Hayek understood that central economic planning could not work because the information contained in prices is too complex, diverse and localized to be supplanted by decisions made by “experts.”
In the same way, our individual opinions on subjects of controversy—including, but not limited to, public policy—are shaped by our personal experiences and knowledge.
Sir, I see your gratuitous invocation of Hayek’s information theory and I raise you Henry Hazlit’s elaboration of opportunity cost—from one Austrian economist to another:
A bridge is built. If it is built to meet an insistent public demand, if it solves a traffic problem or a transportation problem otherwise insoluble, if, in short, it is even more necessary to the taxpayers collectively than the things for which they would have individually spent their money had it had not been taxed away from them, there can be no objection. But a bridge built primarily “to provide employment” is a different kind of bridge….
The bridge exists. It is, let us suppose, a beautiful and not an ugly bridge. It has come into being through the magic of government spending. Where would it have been if the obstructionists and the reactionaries had had their way? There would have been no bridge. The country would have been just that much poorer. Here again the government spenders have the better of the argument with all those who cannot see beyond the immediate range of their physical eyes. They can see the bridge. But if they have taught themselves to look for indirect as well as direct consequences they can once more see in the eye of imagination the possibilities that have never been allowed to come into existence. They can see the unbuilt homes, the unmade cars and washing machines, the unmade dresses and coats, perhaps the ungrown and unsold foodstuffs. To see these uncreated things requires a kind of imagination that not many people have. We can think of these nonexistent objects once, perhaps, but we cannot keep them before our minds as we can the bridge that we pass every working day. What has happened is merely that one thing has been created instead of others.
Take that, and apply it to your strategic reasons for tolerating fascists, white nationalists, and religious supremacists in polite company. Their presence in a movement is palpable—hey show up in a head count—but how many sane thinkers who might otherwise sympathize with a cause or idea will never join, out of sheer disgust with its co-optation by fascists and bigots? We’ll never know…. This consideration applies not only to the involvement of Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, or Ann Coulter in the “conservative movement,” but also to your own trafficking in Austrian circles—Hayek is rolling in his grave as neo-confederate cranks twist his ideas in their defense.
Now, back to Charles Johnson… I may disagree with him on any number of issues and still find debating ideas with him a pleasure. He has never given me reason to doubt his integrity or his sanity, and for enduring—without so much as a flinch—the storm of excrement blowing his way from “conservative” quarters of the blogosphere, my hat goes off to him. Refusing to break bread with outspoken bigots should not constitute a tense moral dilemma. It’s basic decency—the kind we should safely take for granted in others and in ourselves. As Charles’s alter ego Lao Stinky put it, “Refusing to dive into a sewer doesn’t mean you’re cleaner than everyone else.” No one deserves a medal for refusing to descend into vitriol and bigotry, but basic virtues are becoming so hard to come by on the Right that they must be spelled out anew. And it’s embarrassing that it has come to this.
White nationalist Robert Stacy McCain now prominently blogrolls lgf2, a hate site run by a couple of dangerous whacks prone to physical violence—and encourages its commenters to congregate at Hot Air. He brings up the nicknames of commenters banned from LGF—apparently, they’re no longer “anonymous a—holes” when they play his game—and encourages them to seethe at his site. Could there be a move pettier than cultivating disgruntled ex-commenters banned for good reasons from another site? I mean, at least from “one of the top Hayekian public intellectuals in America”?
To all those “pundits” who should know better—Vodka, Allah, Insta, I am pointing at you—some candid advice: Get your neo-confederate protégée to shut up, because the more he talks, the deeper the hole he digs himself into, and the more uncomfortable you will feel when you come to his defense.
UPDATE: I’ve learned that Hot Air‘s “Green Room” was not created specifically for hosting Robert Stacy McCain’s diatribes against Charles Johnson. It’s rather a platform for all “outside bloggers” who contribute to Hot Air. I did not know this because I have not read Hot Air in a long time. What McCain did was use an existing platform to publish a thread exclusively dedicated to trashing Charles Johnson. There… is that better?
UPDATE: Over at “The Other McCain,” Stacy is already reacting by, you guessed it, weaseling his way around my arguments. He pretends to respond by quoting a sentence of mine—cherry-picked for its relative irrelevance to the charges against him:
White nationalist Robert Stacy McCain now prominently blogrolls lgf2, a hate site run by a couple of dangerous whacks prone to physical violence—and encourages its commenters to congregate at Hot Air.
Then he proceeds to “debunk” it by informing me that “there are these things called facts,… and there are witnesses to those facts.” These “facts” Stacy links to and their respective “witnesses” are nothing but photos of his son with his football teammates, of whom some are black and one is Asian. So his offspring has been caught on camera looking friendly among blacks, in front of witnesses. Stacy, you’ve humored me. If this is the best you can muster in your defense, I rest my case. The idea of having blacks for in-laws still repulses you. But to your credit, you have established that not only you don’t mind transacting business with a black bank clerk, but you will even tolerate your son playing with black kids. You are much more open-minded than I had realized and I am not above admitting it.
From another update:
Now we see where Kejda Gjermani is getting her misinformation. A commenter identifies her husband as software entrepreneur Michael P. Hussey…[so MPH was not an anonymous a—hole after all—ed.] Apparently “mph” encountered Richard Spencer—perhaps at a libertarian event? some sort of Paulista gathering?—in New York, where they both live, and words were exchanged…. Alas, “mph” has made serious mistakes by recycling materials of dubious credibility, and—if it is true that “mph” is Hussey—he has committed an even more serious error by involving Gjermani in what appears to be some sort of personal feud with Spencer.
Leaving aside the misogynistic presumption that it must have been my husband who fed me “misinformation” or “involved” me in anything, I must correct Stacy’s allegation that it was at a libertarian event or “Paulista gathering” that my husband and I met Richard Spencer. For someone so ostensibly committed to not jumping to conclusions without knowing “the facts,” Stacy is sure making up a lot of stuff from thin air. For the record, we met Spencer at a debate titled “Is Zionism Racism?” There was a show of hands, and guess which way Richard Spencer voted? To this day, I remain wholly confused as to what his vote revealed about his attitude to Israel, because he seems to consider racism a good thing.
To top it off, Stacy taunts us:
Pay close attention, idiots: Just because I haven’t bothered to deny something doesn’t mean it’s true. The burden of proof is on the accuser, and good luck proving some of the things you have so flatly asserted. There are facts. And there are witnesses.
He doesn’t bother denying any of the charges against him. But he does bother writing dozens of articles, each over 1,000 words long, to harass whomever brings up unflattering facts from his past. Facts that he doesn’t deny, but pleads with his readers not to believe…. I need some Advil….
Hell Yes!!!!!!!!!!
1. The Green Room at HotAir.com has been around for quite some time, and its name and purpose have nothing to do with LittleGreenFootballs.
2. R.S. McCain did not carve anything “out of HotAir with its administrators’ approval:”
R.S. McCain: “…without authorization from anyone, I’ve created this Green Room post.”
Can you please address these direct quotes and facts? Thank you.
I am not a reader of Hot Air and cannot comment on their site architecture except to say that RS McCain cannot create a “Green Room” post at Hot Air without the consent of its administrators any more than I can… or any more than RS McCain can create a post on this blog.
What he did is he used Hot Air real estate to trash Charles Johnson exclusively–and Michelle Malkin, Ed Morrisey, and Allahpundit should be ashamed to give their green light to that use.
“What he did is he used Hot Air real estate to trash Charles Johnson exclusively–and Michelle Malkin, Ed Morrisey, and Allahpundit should be ashamed to give their green light to that use.”
Why? Why should they be ashamed, given Charles Jonhsons behavior towards them and towards the conservative blogs in general?
You yourself seem to be about as conservative as Van Jones. What is your interest in what conservatives say among themselves?
You omitted why Hotair commenters are angry at Charles Johnson and LGF: One of Johnson’s regulars showed up at Hotair in the middle of the night and posted the most vile and disgusting racial slurs in the comments when no moderator was present to quickly remove them. The creep went back to LGF and bragged about it and received no reprimand from Johnson for writing the “N” word all over Hotair. And they call other people racists? What hypocrites.
Care to provide any proof to this? Or should I just take your word on it? What about the rest of my article? What do you think of RS McCain?
Go read the thread on it at LGF. And frankly, I believe you are quite aware of what went on. What do you think of Kilgore Trout leaving the N word all over HotAir? Is that racist? Is that not an slap in the face of african-americans who read HotAir? Where is the apology?
What LGF thread? Where is this thread? I have no idea what you are talking about, so either provide links or shut up. But I warn you, if you question my forthrightness again on my site, your comments won’t make it past moderation.
Before taking things too far, you would be better off looking at the thread on LGF. If you don’t know what it is, you’re missing essential background.
Kejda, let’s be honest. You’re not interested in proof. You latched onto this second hand and are running like a dog with fleas.
No one cares about McCain. He’s just one voice in the wilderness, exactly like you.
Then why are you taking time out of your day to defend him?
Kilgore Trout, used HotAir real estate to leave racial slurs all over the comments, with nary a peep from Johnson. He and the others at LGF should be ashamed. Still waiting to hear an apology for that crap.
Pfff… Really? Give me link. Has it occurred to you, by the way, that any street thug with an email address can leave a comment at Hot Air under the name Kilgore Trout? Some of the people from LGF2, to which RS McCain links in the “Green Room” have submitted ugly comments as me to other sites.
The Killgore Trout of LGF is the last person among Hot Air commenters who would ever utter racial slurs–I can assure you of that much.
Now, start making sense of stop bugging.
Actually this all happened. It’s all here:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34695_Overnight_Open_Thread/comments/#ctop
Start at comment 751.
== The Killgore Trout of LGF is the last person among Hot Air commenters who would ever utter racial slurs ==
Since he in fact DID DO IT, when are you going to condemn him?
Or you could read the thread where it was actually discussed rather than one after it. It’s not long.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34694_Creationists_Win_Another_One_in_Louisiana/comments/
You know, the one that makes it clear that KT is not a racist and most LGF commenters were not in agreement with the method. I guess that doesn’t fit the Asshat Agenda™ though.
== “Or you could read the thread where it was actually discussed rather than one after it. It’s not long.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34694_Creationhttp://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34694_Creationists_Win_Another_One_in_Louisiana/comments/
You know, the one that makes it clear that KT is not a racist” ==
209 comments not long? WRONG!
That makes no such thing clear. A guy who’s dropping n-bombs in the middle of the night on the premise that they ought to be immediately deleted by the mods who are sound asleep is not someone you take in good faith. Maybe at LGF every comment is monitored in real time for deletion, but most blogs don’t work that way.
Kejda — You are quite misinformed, either willfully or not, about Kilgore Trout, who unleashed his inner racist all over Hot Air’s “real estate” in the middle of the night, so that it would be left up for a few hours in order to make it appear for as long as possible that its commenters were a bunch of white supremacists or something, then went back and blabbed about the deed in order to receive attaboys from LGF commenters. Lots of n-words by KT.
Charles merely tut-tutted KT’s act weakly and didn’t really condemn it, probably because KT is a longtime lapdog of his, and probably also because part of Charles appears to enjoy that kind of monkey wrenching (especially when directed not at his own site, but at other sites he dislikes).
Looking at a comment of yours attached to a previous post, replying to an earlier poster who was banned at LGF (saying that he must have behaved like an ass in order to be banned), you are also misinformed about bannings at LGF, because Charles is monomaniacal about them nowadays and is also attempting to cover them up in order to misdirect people about what’s actually going on at his site. Charles simply doesn’t like to be disagreed with, even in a civil way, anymore. He bans people daily even for dignified, non-abusive, and non-threatening disagreements with him. He bans people merely for down-dinging posts that he up-dings. There is a gigantic list of 1,300+ commenters ( http://kirls.blogspot.com/2009/05/banned-monium.html ), including lots and lots of ordinary, non-threatening, non-abusive people that he has banned, many for totally weak reasons, and he often deletes last comments by newly banned commenters so that he can misrepresent their “flounces” to his remaining Lizards.
If you dare to look into these things, Kejda, you will find that I speak the truth here. I suspect that you don’t dare, however.
It’s rather sad that you far right wingers do not understand the concepts of satire and parody.
I read those comments and thought they were hilarious. People like you reinforce the fact that ‘wing nuts” believe that Steven Colbert is actually a Conservative. You see what you want to believe.
What was really pathetic was the fact that so many other bloggers at Hot Air took that as their cue to litter their racist feces all over that thread, thus allowing Killgore to declare “Mission Accomplished”.
N
.-= Reggie´s last blog ..Rodan self-destructs online =-.
==”It’s rather sad that you far right wingers do not understand the concepts of satire and parody.”==
Charles Johnson is a ‘far right winger’?
The parody:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_091809/content/01125112.guest.html
Johnson’s hysterical response:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34710_Limbaugh-_We_Need_Segregated_Buses
He just doesn’t get it.
Kejda,
Thanks for your response. I would only say that when you put it like that your argument is far more reasonable than as you originally put it. You’ve deigned to weigh in on this issue, so it’s in your interest to avoid appearing as if you do not know as much about the situation as you should.
In a blog war, the blogs are nearly as important entities as the posters.
Kind regards.
Kedja,
It seems I was too charitable, and you do not merely seem uninformed, you are uninformed.
You are unaware of Killgore Trout’s actions on HotAir, and straight away concoct a defense of him claiming it was a sockpuppet and he would never do such a thing.
Only, Killgore freely admits that is exactly what he did. To wit:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34695_Overnight_Open_Thread/comments/#cc7712597
You are not doing yourself or Charles Johnson any favours by coming to his defense when you do not have knowledge of even the basic timeline of this ongoing spat.
Regards,
Freddo.
effie….
C Johnson did not endorse the Killgore Trout outing of the racism at Hot Air and posted that fact at least twice…if you are going to implicate CJ in that you need to pay closer attention
Yes but what about CJ’s “guilt by association” furor?
It isn’t okay to spout racist comments behind the bulwark of believing that you are not racist.
LFG does not tolerate it, why should anybody else?
Killgore Trout posts at LGF…there is no association…CJ is hardly responsible for what his contributors post at other sites…guilt by association is lame at best
Then tell Charles to stop vilifying others. Charles is associated with Kilgore who did something absolutely disgusting, provides a place for him to post, and does not admonish his behavior.
Gee sound familiar?
Sort of riminiscent of his pissings about McCain. I think he’s just trying to get some of those lefty “conservative sees the light” dollars as his site seems to be financially unstable.
why is it disgusting to expose brazen racism?
To use those words in any way for any reason is disgusting. Here the ends do NOT justify the means.
Again, CJ wouldn’t tolerate that from anyone else. Like I said, using the N word or any racial epithet because you believe yourself to be non-racist is not an excuse.
Those words should not be used at all, let alone in a public forum. It stings some people fiercely. And Chas’ practically being Kilgore’s cheerleader.
It’s odd bedfellows. If you advocate it you’re just as racist.
I’d take my argument to LGF but regisration isn’t open and I’d be banned with my first post for not stroking LGF’s phallic status-quo.
“guilt by association is lame at best”
A defender of Charles Johnson wrote these words and his head did not explode? Guilt by association, cribbed directly from the far left SPLC, is CJ’s one and only trick.
But yet, the same CJ who throws people off his site for random things, including the transgressions of having the “wrong” links on their blogroll, or appearing in the same hemisphere as a “bad” person, suddenly seems to not be so worked up when one of his hatchet”men” do it. Go figure.
Also, I find it interesting that CJ defends Killgore’s actions, saying he “understands” a 3AM act of cyber vandalism and claims it had to be done, as well as his bootlickers hiding behind the wall of a friendly site to say all of this, and not venture out beyond “approved” site. Go figure.
So let’s see. CJ will ban someone who posts something CJ doesn’t like at other websites besides his own, but when a racist brags about what he did at Hot Air, CJ doesn’t ban the racist. Please explain what we are missing.
I’ve been writing about Robert Stacy McCain, Francis Coombs, and the whole WTimes gang for some time at The Pink Flamingo. I’m not important enough for them to harass. Charles Johnson has the story correct on McCain and his nasty little friends. The problem is people refuse to believe what is going on.
SJR
The Pink Flamingo
.-= SJ Reidhead´s last blog ..Obama Parties While Georgia Floods: Yet To Declare Disaster =-.
Look folks. I’m on East Coast time and I need to get to bed. I don’t read every comment or thread on LGF, but will check out your links tomorrow when I wake up. Whatever I find there, however, cannot have any bearing on what I have written about RS McCain. That’s all I have to say tonight.
Kejda,
It need not have a bearing on your writings about McCain. My only intention was to offer a few pieces of clarification where you were missing key background information. I hope it helped.
Is R.S. McCain a racist? I can’t come to a conclusion myself, so I leave it alone for the most part. The associations and quotes you have presented are interesting, but on the other hand this is a guy who attends his son’s football matches; playing in teams of rather colourful composition. I feel there’s more to the story.
Anyway, good night to you.
Freddo:
What is one to conclude of a person who approvingly links to American Renaissance and VDARE?
If you don’t want to call that “racist” then how about “racists’ enthusiast”? Maybe “racists’ publicist”?
Come up with your own term for RSM, just don’t deny that he supports ideas that most (I hope) of us Americans find appalling.
Wow. You still “tired” and unable to read what went on? I noticed you were a lot more strident inside the walls of the Green Gulag last night. Oh Well.
Or, are you trying to coordinate your message with “MPH”?
Having never met you, Mrs. Gjermani, I am unaware of what cause you might have to attack me in this manner. However, I regret that you never attempted to contact me to inquire about any of these matters, as I might have warned you against publishing an attack that will cause you so much embarrassment.
That’s Ms. Gjermani. As the author of these words …
…you may feel immune to criticism originating from anyone who has not been a guest in your home, has not known your children, your children’s friends, and these friends’ siblings and pets. Not that you abide by such restrictive standards in your daily criticism of politicians and public figures. All I need to know about you before I opine on you are your own statements and a list of people and organizations you are affiliated with.
Before you issue further threats, a word of caution: Research Robert Spencer’s exchanges with me. He has called me many unflattering an epithet and tried to shut me down. He has harassed my employer with seething e-mails. But he is worse for wear. My research on him has brought to his reputation ruin from which he may never recover. The only reason I have not taken him down even further is because he bores me.
You, sir, do not wish to become my target if you have skeletons in your closet.
Good day.
To clarify the argument about using “real estate” at HA and Kilgore’s involvement: Indeed KT did post there one night. Note though that there ALREADY were racist comments on that thread at HA, which the posters at HA wanted to deny. You’ll have to ask KT for him to clarify his motives, but IMO that thread at HA (and this is not unusual) had already become a cesspool before KT’s involvement, and KT effectively got the moderators’ attention to that fact.
Kejda: as you are discovering, a non-trivial portion of the so called “conservative” blog-o-sphere is just white-washed good-ol’-boy paleocons. It’s why I don’t regularly read many “conservative” blogs and frankly don’t want to be labeled a “conservative”, though some of my own beliefs hardly fit the term “liberal” either.
“there ALREADY were racist comments on that thread at HA”
No, there were not. The first person to show up and start chanting “nigger” was Kilgore Trout. There were no racist comments up to that point.
You are flat out lying.
I have the PDF snapshots of that Thread @ HA and I defy you to point to ANY racist comments. I post regularly on HotAir and I am hypersensitive to all forms of racisms.
Trolls do show up, like Killgore Trout, and post garbage to try to pin it on HA and Michelle Malkin. Ed and Allah have ZERO tolerance for racism.
Killgore posted the most blatantly racist comments I have ever seen on the internet, period.
You are flat out lying and covering for Killgore Trout and CJ.
== “To clarify the argument about using “real estate” at HA and Kilgore’s involvement: Indeed KT did post there one night. Note though that there ALREADY were racist comments on that thread at HA,…” ==
“Your Honor, she had already been raped by three other guys”
Still GUILTY!
.-= liontooth´s last blog ..Gore’s severe memory lapse regarding Iraq =-.
Charles Johnson is an emotional six-year-old with extraordinary powers to control the blog where he rules by simply wishing away people and things that anger or confound him. Charles has the mind and imagination
of a typical lunatic. The people at LGF have to look like lizards all the time, think lizard thoughts, and say lizard things, because that’s what Charles commands and, if they disobey, he can wish them into a cornfield from whence they are never to be seen or heard from again.
What few adults remain try nervously to think like lizards and tell Charles that he’s a good boy, hoping that Charles’s terrible power won’t be turned upon themselves.
“What is one to conclude of a person who approvingly links to American Renaissance and VDARE?”
What specifically is your objection to these publications? And don’t answer with “the SPLC says ..”.
Here are my specific objections to American Renaissance and McCain:
In 1997, American Renaissance published a “Pro and Con” feature in which two contributors argued whether Christianity hurts or helps the white race.
http://www.amren.com/ar/1997/09/
One of those essays was “A Defense of the Faith” by the psuedonymous “Victor Craig,” an AR contributor who had previously lamented integration of Ole Miss. This time around, Craig argued that “Biblical” Christianity supports white supremacy. Craig cited Christian support for South African apartheid as well as for American slavery and segregation. Proper Christianity is so white supremacist that the atheist “racialists” who read AR should join the Christian faith as “a duty to your ancestors,” he wrote. Of particular note, since this concerns McCain, Craig approvingly cited the white-supremacist beliefs of 19th-century minister Robert Louis Dabney.
McCain read this white-supremacist dialogue and sent in a letter offering Craig “warm congratulations” for sticking up for Christianity’s racist bona fides. “It is no coincidence, I think, that the decline of white America in recent decades has gone hand-in-hand with a decline in moral standards,” McCain wrote.
http://www.amren.com/ar/1997/11/
McCain recently wrote on his own blog that he does not support white supremacy. If we take him at his word, it seems reasonable to believe that it would have been more honest for him to specify how long he has held that opinion.
Years after McCain applauded Craig’s invocation of Dabney’s white supremacism, McCain adopted Dabney as one of his totems for his anonymous commentary on Free Republic. To wit, McCain posted for a couple of years under the psuedonym “BurkeCalhounDabney.” It was as BCD that McCain allegedly wrote that it it “natural” to feel “revulsion” at interracial marraige. When he was outed, McCain deleted almost all of his BCD posts from Free Republic. In a subsequent interview on the Alan Colmes radio show, McCain admitted that he was BurkeCalhounDabney, and that the handle specifically referred to Robert Louis Dabney. Dabney was an unabashed racist, who even after the Civil War continued to insist that white enslavement of blacks was “the righteous, the best, yea, the only tolerable relation” between the two races.
That’s a little lengthy, but you asked for specifics. What do you think of these facts?
I don’t see any of the trolls addressing these facts here. It’s much more convenient to talk about Charles Johnson, Killgore Trout, the weather… you know.
>>’In 1997, American Renaissance published a “Pro and Con” feature in which two contributors argued whether Christianity hurts or helps the white race.”
I followed your link and looked at the letters at the end of the article. But there is no letter there from RS McCain.
>>“It is no coincidence, I think, that the decline of white America in recent decades has gone hand-in-hand with a decline in moral standards” McCain wrote.”
I see nothing remotely racist or even very notable about that observation. What troubles you so about it?
>>”McCain recently wrote on his own blog that he does not support white supremacy. If we take him at his word, it seems reasonable to believe that it would have been more honest for him to specify how long he has held that opinion.”
What you want to ask is “When did you stop beating your wife?” Your amatur DA act does not impress me.
>>”McCain adopted Dabney as one of his totems for his anonymous commentary on Free Republic.”
So?
>>”McCain admitted that he was BurkeCalhounDabney”
Did you know that Burke was an early and vocal advocate for the abolition of slavery? It’s a fact. What do you think of that fact?
>>”What do you think of these facts?”
I’m very underwhelmed by them. I’ll write another post explaining why.
Did you know that the young Bill Clinton attended Oxford on a Fulbright Scholarship? The Fulbright in question was of course William Fulbright, Democratic Senator from Arkansas and fierce opponent of the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act.
Later Bill Clinton said of Fulbright – “”Hillary and I have looked forward for sometime to celebrating this 50th anniversary of the Fulbright Program, to honor the dream and legacy of a great American, a citizen of the world, a native of my home state and my mentor and friend, Senator Fulbright.”
Bill Clintons VP in the WH was of course Al Gore Jr. He was the son of Al Gore Sr, a Democratic Senator from Tennessee who had joined wth Fulbright in opposing civil rights for blacks.
Using the sort of of thinking you are showing off here, I’d have to conclude that the Clinton/Gore adminstration was the time when the KKK took over Washington.
>>”It was as BCD that McCain allegedly wrote that it it “natural” to feel “revulsion” at interracial marraige.”
We have one “allegedly” and we have two words, “natural” and “revulsion”, which we are to believe McCain allegedly wrote. I wouldn’t hang a dog on the sort of evidence you’re offering.
>>”McCain adopted Dabney as one of his totems for his anonymous commentary on Free Republic.”
Kejda Gjerman adapted “Medusa” as one of her totems for anonymous internet commentary. I don’t assume it means she loves hideous monsters and hates humanity.
It is really difficult to believe that Charles Johnson did not put this Kilgore Trout racist up to his “N” bomb tirade, or at the very least OK’ed it. From what others have said Kilgore Trout is an LGF associate to Charles Johnson. Charles Johnson would only let a very loyal person be that. He doesn’t even let people continue to comment if they get the least bit off from his views. Now I am imagining that I am a loyal Charles Johnson soldier and assuming that I have even half a brain, would I do anything like that without first checking with Charles Johnson to get his OK? Obviously not.
Kejda,
I’m not defending Robert McCain because I haven’t had enough time to sift through all the evidence on both sides.
However, I do know this. The feud didn’t start when you said it did. It started much earlier, when CJ decided to break with the Gates of Vienna blog (unjustly, in their case), and several others. He broke off this friendship with McCain because McCain refused to break off his friendship with Pamela Geller.
In CJ’s mind, you are either with him or against him, there is no middle ground. If you say you have no reason to doubt his sanity, you might want to look here:
http://www.shieldofachilles.net/2009/09/goodbye-little-green-footballs-hello.html
I had no quarrel with him, and like you, I was just fine with him going after white supremacits (although I didn’t agree with him in every case). He liked me well enough that he even linked to my site more than once. But I just logged in one day, asked him if it was true that he was banning anyone that disagreed with him, and I got my answer. I was banned – just for asking the question.
There are a lot more problems with CJ than just going after right-wing websites.
“I am not a reader of Hot Air and cannot comment on their site architecture…”
Then why did you comment on their site architecture?
You claimed that R.S. McCain founded The Greenroom which is patently not true and, when you were called on it, you moved the goalposts and made the above ridiculous statement. How in the world can we take the rest of your commentary seriously when you can’t be bothered to get the very first accusation right?
Oh I see the game here. Comments waiting for moderation which means my original post with the links to the screen shots of Kilgores rampage won’t show up here.
Post the link or are you and equal opportunity flouncer like Charles.
Don’t post it, I’ll post everywhere I can find.
to continue to presume C Johnson sanctioned Killgore Trouts stealth outing of the blatant racism at Hot Air is folly…there is no proof of such a thing…if it were so then who is paying you off?…who is your Master that instructs you to come here and make these accusations?…the fact is CJ posted long ago he had nothing to do with it and continues to take his stand even now…denying the truth is a dead end…you can try and trash Charles all you want but in this case you are plain wrong….stick to the facts
“stealth outing of the blatant racism at Hot Air”
What blatant racism? I was on that thread before Killgore showed up. There was no BLATANT RACISM. I don’t tolerate any racist rhetoric and if HA was racist I would not post there. You are making false acquisitions.
The circumstance that the Americans’ federal constitution is dying seems a more important subject of discussion than anything about which I read in the little time I spent skimming this discussion thread.
If Charles Johnson did not sanction his disciple Kilgore Trouts extreme and blatant racism why hasn’t he banned him? He must have banned hundreds by now and for the smallest disagreement with him.
Where is your proof of “blatant racism” at Hotair, other than the blatant racism of Charles Johnson’s disciple Kilgore Trout?
Still “Your comment is awaiting moderation”. Can’t you handle the truth? I know it’s a little late at night but if Ed and Allah are suppose to stay up all night to guard against Charles Johnson/Kilgore Trout extreme racism you could at least not block comments with “Your comment is awaiting moderation”. They don’t.
I find it hilarious that right-wingers are more outraged over being exposed as racists than by the fact that white supremacism and religious/ethnic tribalism play quite a large part in the American conservative movement.
It would be disgusting if it wasn’t so schadenfreudtastic!
What a lot of sloppy research. For instance, your quote, falsely attributed to McCain about interracial marriage, was from Michael Hill, President of the League of the South. It was originally misattributed by one Michaelangelo Signorile, who refused to retract when asked to do so by McCain — so much for the intellectual honesty of liberal pundits.
I’ve known McCain for 15 years and I am in an interracial marriage; funny, McCain never said boo to me about it.
See my post which refutes some of the falsehoods you have published at this link:
http://saberpoint.blogspot.com/2009/09/robert-stacy-mccain-i-know-him-better.html
Further, CJ quotes the highly discredited Southern Poverty Law Center as “proof” that McCain is a racist; but the SPLC calls many people a racist based on the flimsiest of evidence. The reason is simple: it’s a good way to delegitimize conservatives and bring in more donations. Just this week Rush Limbaugh called their leader Mark Potok “an off the wall lunatic” and a “despicable embarrassment of a human being.
It’s a shame that you rationalize this highly unethcial behavior and give credence to the lies of Charles Johnson, whom Robert Spencer has accurately described as the “libel blogger.”
.-= Stogie´s last blog ..How to Deal With a Determined and Nasty Troll With a Tor Server =-.
From your blog post:
Thank you for clarifying that.
And the “source” you link to, claiming that the interracial quote was falsely attributed to McCain, contains no original source material. We’re supposed to just take McCain’s word…. If the quote were truly falsely attributed, RS McCain should entertain a libel lawsuit. Then we’d see the evidence in court.
==”And the “source” you link to, claiming that the interracial quote was falsely attributed to McCain, contains no original source material. We’re supposed to just take McCain’s word….”==
http://www.nypress.com/article-6776-that-other-times.html
“That was posted by Robert Stacy McCain (who has contributed to New York Press in the past) on a website called Reclaiming the South.”
Where is the link to the website Reclaiming the South at Kejda?
The right has become bad crazy, I’m happy to say.
Wow.
Killgore Trout once referred to a black woman as “Jungle Black”.
His and Charles’ racism accusations are pure projection, just as it is with his fascism accusations (a guy who banned 1000 people in one month for not sucking up to him – isn’t it a bit fascist?).
I respect left, right, extreme left and extreme right, and can have a civil discussion with eather. But not with Chuckes Johnson and his ilk. They are clinically insane, unfit for human society. Look at the LGF threads, they are all about social life for people who have no social life in non-virtualuty. So sad.
Where has it been established that Robert Stacy McCain posted as BurkeCalhounDabney on FR? (presumably making him the Burke C Dabney who was published in AmRen)
Why does it matter if you don’t like some of the sources that identify Robert Stacy McCain as a racist? The guy’s own words identify himself as a racist. Seriously, anyone who describes people’s reaction to interracial images as “altogether natural revulsion” is way beyond the pale.
Those of you defending Robert Stacy McCain are laying down with dogs, and you are going to wake up with fleas.
.-= peterb´s last blog ..Next Next Gen =-.
I am glad someone has finally exposed the Anti Christian rantings of faux conservative Charles Johnson.
The race card has been abused too much. Calling people who oppose you a ” racist or White supremecist” is disgusting. Just ask Bill Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro who were attacked by Obama. Enough is Enough.
Its really funny how the SPLC can call anyone a racist.
Lets examine the facts. In the past few weeks the Congressional Black Caucus voted unamimously to reprimand Joe Wilson for calling Obama a liar. Many stated it was racist.
Then the very same Black Caucus could not find ONE member outraged at ACORNs willingness to import 13 yr olds for sexual slavery. I kid you not. The Caucus voted Unanimously to continue ACORN funding.
Dennis D,
Why is the SPLC relevant here? Are you saying that you think that Robert Stacy McCain’s own public statements aren’t racist on their very face?
I’m willing to stipulate that the SPLC are evil space tyrants from the planet Zorgon, here to eat our childrens’ brains, but that still doesn’t make McCain’s public, on-the-record statements any less despicable.
-peterb
.-= peterb´s last blog ..Next Next Gen =-.
You lost me in the first sentence with “unprovoked”- are you even aware that Johnson started all this crap: directly because McCain was defending Pamela Geller, and anyone Johnson deems a non-person must be shunned, or he attacks them. He is now in a self-imposed feud with literally hundreds of bloggers because of his own intolerance and distortion of their writings and associations: he declares anyone who even blogrolls a friend of a friend of one of his enemies- an enemy! This 6 degrees of separation tactic has him attacking nearly every prominent rightblogger.
It’s a calculated move to the left, and trying to establish his leftist bona-fides by burning all his bridges with every rightblog ally he ever had (except lapdogs like you, who, without actually doing ANY research, are defending him). It’s ironic, because the leftist wave has crested and the left is about to be crushed as a political force. However, johnson’s perpetual anger will jibe well with Glenn Greenwald, Kos, Atrios and the other losers of the left.
Johnson is as big a hypocrite and douchebag as you’ll find on the internet these days. He’s beneath contempt. I don’t know what brownie points you think you’re scoring by kissing his ass, but they will be worth nada compared to the ill-will from the majority of decent blogs who will reel in disgust from yours due to your insanity. Enjoy the cheap hits you’re getting as a tool of a johnson, they will diminish and you’ll be just another discarded sockpuppet.
OK everyone. I’m up.
I don’t understand how this got derailed into a KillgoreTrout thread, and I find focusing on what KillgoreTrout did or did not do one night in the comment section of Hot Air to be akin to the ostrich burying its head in the sand. I don’t personally know KillgoreTrout, but I’ve been reading his comments for nearly two years now. He is the opposite of a racist–if anything, I find him to sometime be a bit overly sensitive on the subject of race, in much the same way you’d expect a progressive liberal to be–which in many ways, he is.
So I have no doubt in my mind that he meant to express no racist sentiments of his own when he pushed the envelope at Hot Air. But suppose I’m wrong about him. And suppose Charles is wrong too by seeing it the same way. Worse, suppose, for the sake of the argument, that Charles knows Killgore “is racist,” and excuses his “racist behavior,” or even promotes it. And that would make Charles complicit…. So suppose I am wrong about defending Charles.
What about Robert Stacey McCain? If the worst you are willing to assume about Charles and KillgoreTrout were true (which it isn’t), then where does that leave us? Anyone care to comment on McCain’s involvement with the League of the South? How about his disgusting remark on interracial relations? Charles and I have provided more evidence that RS McCain is a neo-confederate racist than you have provided of Killgore’s impure intentions. If you want me to start addressing your claims regarding Killgore seriously, you must first come to terms with what has been revealed about McCain.
Otherwise, I’ll just conclude you are trying to derail the subject.
You have really been brainwashed by Charles, haven’t you? Your “guilt by association” stuff just isn’t cutting it anymore especially your attacks on RSM.
Hey, I used to live on the same block as John Wayne Gacy, does that make me a mass murderer? I live in Cook County Illinois, does that make me part of the cesspool of crooks and criminals that run this place? In your’s and Charles Johnson thinking it would.
Step away from the computer, or better yet, step away from the assinine LGF and Charles Johnson and get some fresh air because whether you want to believe it or not, Charles is nuts which would make you nuts. “Guilt by association” see how it works?
And stop defending Kilgore Trout, it makes you look stupid. We all know what he did.
Knuckles….
Go drag them. You’re out of here.
“You’re out of here.”
Knuckles was banned for Disagreeing with you?
You pulled a CJ. How Ironic?
Your blog has just become victim to the not so subtle trick of the far right, derailing threads through the use of a straw-man argument.
If they can’t defend the indefensible, then they create a straw-man (Killgore) and use him to derail the thread away from the original discussion, which in this case was Robert Stacy McCain’s harassment of Charles Johnson.
.-= Reggie´s last blog ..Rodan self-destructs online =-.
Kejda: You need to stop channelling Wild Irish Rose in your blog posts. Robert Stacy McCain is not a white supremacist or a racist, at least not from any writings I have seen of his. You may care or not care for Glenn Beck (I am not a big fan of him myself) but he is not a racist either.
I hardly agree with everything Pam Geller says, but racist? That is a bit much. As for Robert Spencer, he is over the top in his criticism of Islam and I disagree with him, but that does not mean anyone ever associating with him is a racist.
As for Charles Johnson, I have seen him decend into a paranoid fugue state over the last several years. I am sorry, but there are objective reasons Powerline, Ace, Allah, Capt Ed, Michelle Malkin, Protein Wisdom, Pajamasmedia have cut their ties with the Lizard King.
The clinical term for it is Charles Johnson is nuts.
Seriously, go ask John Podhoretz what he thinks about all of this. I also get that CJ has been loyal to Israel (at least till now) but so am I and so are all the bloggers who disagree with CJ listed above.
So you are saying that you don’t think the statement that people who see “interracial images” feel an “altogether natural revulsion” is inherently racist? Because those are Robert Stacy McCain’s words.
Joe,
Stop patronizing me on my own blog.
I am not channeling anything but my own conscience. And I don’t take from my boss instructions on what to think, though you’d be surprised of what he thinks. Why don’t you go ask him yourself?
I can assure you that everyone at Commentary knows TakiMagazine is an anti-Semitic cesspool. Beyond that, please leave my employer out of this.
I am a longtime reader of LGF and am truly disappointed with the whole whackstick ritual: Every person who disagrees with the thread or sanctioned opinion is all of a sudden a “lurker” or “troll.” Then Charles comes in to sate the demands of “of with his head.” It really is a shame because on the McCain issue and many others, Charles is, imo, correct. But he is behaving like a bully and it is a complete turnoff. Even I, who see the trend of turning from idiocy on the left to idiocy on the right as completely rational, am pro-evolution, even like to ride bikes, Even I feel like if I spoke my mind I would be chased away with torches and pitchforks.
Well said!
That is exactly how I feel.
I don’t know you or the circumstances behind your banning. But I do know that when a commenter in good standing has slipped on occasion, to the point of getting banned, Charles has often reconsidered and reactivated their account. In fact, he has been so lenient in this regard at times that it has irritated me when, for example, he once re-instated a user who was sympathizing in one form or another with the ethnic cleaning Serbs perpetrated in the Balkans (Charles reactivated his account only after said commenter apologized). These people hang themselves with the rope they are given and tend to ruin their second chances. In my opinion, Charles tries to see the good in people and give them the benefit of the doubt until he no longer can. That’s how he acted toward Robert Spencer too, though the latter did not deserve it. If you find Charles Johnson overly irritable toward his commenters, I disagree. But even if it were the case, it would represent his chosen way of policing his own site, which he is entitled to administer as he sees fit.
Here we are talking about unsightly blights on the biography of a “prominent Conservative blogger.” That’s what’s worth focusing on. Not how Charles polices his own blog.
You seem to be blind when it comes to bannings. Stop making excuses, it makes you look foolish. I was a member of LGF since 2004, I was booted because I downdinged ONE post I disagreed with back in May. No warning, no slap on the hands, just locked out a couple of hours later.
It doesn’t bother you to see members flounced out of there by the dozens on a daily basis? It doesn’t bother you to see Charles start threads dedicated to the “HotAir Racists”?
Well, here I am giving you a warning. One more post insulting me on my own blog and you’ll be banned here too. Try me.
Go back to the first sentence in your poorly-researched post. In fact the first word will do. You derailed yourself. If your first sentence is garbage (and it is), how many are going to take any of the rest of it seriously (if they bother to read it at all)?
And you go back wherever you came from. You’re not welcome here.
Kejda:
Beautifully written. PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE!
Yes, it was, wasn’t it?
🙂
Kejda, I think the world of Commentary and Jennifer Rubin is one of my favorite conservative commentators (she is one of the best evah). I like Max Boot a lot. And I have been a fan of J-Pod’s stuff for years. I read Commentary for the content, which is top notch.
I can’t say I have read a lot of your stuff at Commentary, but I have read some of it. It was okay–I don’t remember much of it, but I also did not find it objectionable. Which is why I was shocked to see what a terribly researched post this was. Granted you are doing this on your own, but seriously, this is just not very well done.
If you are going to call someone a racist or white supremacist you really need to be more careful. It is a very serious charge. Just because Charles Johnson says it does not make it so. As a courtesy, you should contact the target of your attack and ask them to respond to these accusations first.
Robert Stacy McCain, from everything I know about him, is NOT a racist or a white supremacist. When someone says they are not a racist and I have seen no writing or posts from them that are racist, I accept and give them the benefit of doubt that they are not racist. If you are going to accuse RSM of this, at least post some of his “racist” writings that support such a position (or do you not have any?). Do not rely on ad hominem attacks by others or guilt through association to do it.
What I do know is Kilgore Trout did go on Hot Air to post some racist comments in an experiment to show how Hot Air was racist in not taking the objectionable posts down fast enough. That does not make KT a racist (obviously) but it does show he is a dishonest asshat. In response Hot Air put LGF in its left voices catagory. CJ said he had nothing to do with it, but given CJ’s propensity to ban anyone he disagrees with the fact he did not ban KT suggests he did agree with it.
Charles Johnson is on a mission to discredit conservatives. The content of LGF has fallen off to the point of being non-existant. It is just a bunch of shrill sycophants engaged in various witch trials (R.S. McCain’s being one of the latest). I vaccinate my kids, believe that Islamic fundamentalism is just a small fraction of Islam, read and like Hitchens, ride bikes, believe in evolution, and even occasionally listen to jazz music too, but I find CJ insufferable now. His fall is similar to that of Andrew Sullivan’s. Why would you want to participate in that? Seriously, spend some time discussing this stuff with John Podhortez and ask him if Charles Johnson is the horse you should be backing.
I am so sorry I haven’t blown you away with my contributions to Commentary. Stop telling me what I should discuss with my boss and start reading what I write before declaring yourself so unimpressed:
Oh, so that quote on interracial marriage does not meet your criteria? If so, it may say more about you than about McCain.
== “Oh, so that quote on interracial marriage does not meet your criteria If so, it may say more about you than about McCain.” ==
The ‘quote’ isn’t from McCain, it’s what Michelangelo Signorile says McCain posted on another website. Why do you keep falsely claiming McCain said it.
“Wild Irish Rose” is one of CJ’s lapdogs, along with Sharmuta, Killgore, LVQ, Coracle and others too boring to mention. Shocking, that she be moved to write an impassioned defense of the Lizard King. 🙂
I await with eager anticipation the spectacle of Mr McCain trying to “embarrass” Ms Gjermani. A libel suit would be perfect. Too bad you can’t have it tailored in London, McCain. There, where the onus is on the writer/publisher, you might have a chance. Here in the US, truth is an absolute defense against charges of libel. If you have proof that her factual statements are false, bring it.
It appears you have met your Waterloo, in seeking to defend the increasingly paranoid and irrational Johnson. He banned me the other day for disagreeing with him about AGW, through his alter ego “LudwigvanQuixote.” Yet, he still links to Tim Blair, who makes a hilarious mockery of AGW almost every day. I’m sensing a disconnect, here…
It’s also kind of funny, that CJ is reduced to finding defenders from amongst the ranks of recent Canadian college grads. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, apart from the socialist indoctrination, but I can remember a time when CJ had more good friends across the political spectrum than any politician I could name. It wasn’t that long ago.
I can appreciate what must be his awful mental-reckoning of late, as he has rejected his earlier positions on nearly every political point, including AGW. It’s hard to deal with such sudden change, as a lot of us learned after 9/11/01. You were in 8th grade then, or thereabouts?
I don’t know or care what you were banned for. Don’t come seething about it over here. Nice of you to assume away what my Canadian education entails for my political views. That’s real logical. Don’t …like… read around this site, or anything, to find out how socialist-indoctrinated I actually am. One more comment in this vein, and your posting privileges on this site will be history too. My patience is drawing to an end.
Funny how this has turned into a thread about Charles Johnson’s criteria for holding an account at LGF, when here I thought it was about Mr McCain.
When you can’t defend the indefensible, whine about being banned from a blog. It’s a substitute for reasoned argument, and everybody buys it!
Except those who don’t…
Hear Hear….
Not sure why two things can’t be true at once; McCain is an obvious racist and scumbag to boot with marginal credentials and CJ is starting to cut into his own muscle having perhaps at one time having had to trim some fat.
Agreed on the first preposition. The second, I don’t know what it means… what muscle, what fat, what cutting, what trimming? Please unwrap your metaphor so I can discern your meaning.
I am assuming that Charles like all bloggers (especially those that are both prominent and get scrutinized) needs to police often and has to figure out some rough way to cut types who are going to leave nasty comments that come back to haunt him; racist tripe against all Muslims, threats and things like that. I am sure that in getting rid of people likely to damage his reputation (“cutting the fat”) he sometimes nixed people who might have been in a bad mood, forgot a sarc tag, etc… causing some of the resentment. But, now, as a devoted reader and someone who shares almost all of CJ’s views on the nuts to the left AND right, I believe he is whacking interesting non-threatening people who simply disagree with him, down ding him and people he likes (“cutting into his own muscle”). HIs blog, his right to do so but it makes me sad since I like him and LGF and it is to me at least a big turn off to see that kind of, imo, descent. PS I also agree with him about not tolerating for a moment alliances with any fascist and racist organizations.
Listen,
Charles is not a mind reader. Often he has to take preventive action and, in the process, make judgment calls. You can see what a thread devolves into if its administrator doesn’t punish bad behavior. I’ve only deleted about two-three comments so far and 70% of what made it through are still garbage that doesn’t deserve bandwidth. I can perfectly understand how he would try to figure out where a commenter is coming from and treat them accordingly–which often dictates a ban before that commenter flames out. Mistakes can happen. Certainly. But if a commenter truly feels her banning was not warranted, instead of complaining that Charles is not seeing clearly what’s in her head or recognizing her pure intentions, perhaps she should try to get into his head a bit, and put herself in his shoes. He has to deal with thousands of commenters. Each commenter has to deal only with one administrator–him. He can’t look at things from all these thousands of people’s perspectives. But each commenter can and should look at them from his when it comes to acceptable behavior. I’ve never known him not to reinstate someone’s account if that person has a record of overall decency, emails him soon after the banning, explains the rude/passive-aggressive behavior, and promises not to act that way again. If you’re in that position, I advise emailing him. He’s always courteous and receptive to people who make sense. And I am saying this as someone who used to be abrasive, with a high propensity to start fights and insult other commenters on LGF–though they mostly deserved it. In other words, I was provocative; I was trouble. But never have I been banned or seriously warned–there have only been a couple of mild warnings, wholly deserved. And never explicit.
And not only did I use to be hard to manage, but I’ve even advocated some ideas that mainstream folk might consider wacky–particularly due to their co-optation by paleo-con scum. For example, if you check my “about me” page, you’ll see that I advocate abolishing the Federal Reserve and fiat currency altogether. I know Charles is not impressed by that idea–to say the least. I can’t blame him, because, guess what? I can empathize… put myself in other people’s shoes who may not know of the legitimate but obscure economic research on the subject but who do know about New World Order nutjobs taken in with conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve and whatnot. But I’ve always made my position clear, and though he still disagrees with me on the subject, he has never harassed me about my views or threatened banning me. Because he knows I’m not coming from a wacko perspective. That, he knows because I’ve gone to great lengths to make clear. He won’t know what’s in you head unless you explain yourself. So given my own personal experience at LGF and the treatment I’ve seen others receive, I conclude that Charles is a very reasonable admin. You sound like a calm rational person. If there has been a misunderstanding about the circumstances of your banning, I strongly recommend you drop Charles a reasoned email explaining your position.
It’s a redirection. They think that by refocusing the comments on Mr. Johnson that they can give Mr. McCain a pass. They are wrong. This is a well-reasoned, good post about a creep (Robert Stacy McCain), and kudos to Kejda for it.
Kedja–I think R.S. McCain’s comment was if someone does not want to marry someone of a different race, that does not necessarily make them a racist.
If that is your criteria for declaring someone racist or white supremacist, that is a rather low bar. I know plenty of black women who say that they would never ever consider marrying a white man. I have read Beyonce saying that. I do not consider Beyonce a racist for saying so (although I know there are a lot of white guys who would wish Beyonce would reconsider). I know there are a lot of black women who get angry about black men marrying white women. Does that make them racists?
Such a comment has a racial component and are prejudicial (as in pre judging), but it is not what I would call racism (as a pejoritive label). It is most definitely not “white supremacism.”
But Kejda, prove me wrong. Find the offensive racial white supremacist tropes that R.S. McCain has written and I will join you in condemning him. So far the Lizoid Army has found none, other than some weak guilt by association arguments.
Joe, if that is how you interpreted the quote, your reading comprehension skills are wholly deficient. In fact, you need serious clinical treatment.
Go back to it and read it again. And again. And if needed, again. I wonder what you scored on the reading section of the SAT.
By the way, even according to the wholly inaccurate interpretation you distilled from the quote, its utterer is a racist scumbag in my book. And so are you for agreeing with him in that interpretation of his quote.
This is an excellent post! I also disagree with Charles Johnson on a number of issues, but he’s doing an excellent job documenting more extremist elements within the Right that really need to be shown the door. I love your “Hayek is rolling in his grave as neo-confederate cranks twist his ideas in their defense” line.
I’m going to put this on Stumbleupon – I wonder if someone has posted it there already, and I’ll just add this comment for now: I think that a lot of people on the Right really can’t believe that there are quite a few people who would go on and on about “states rights” or “federalism” because limited government for them is a way of saying the South should have won the Civil War. I think there’s a lot of people on the Right who can’t believe that people they agree with on a lot of issues also happen to think Hitler was a pacifist (Pat Buchanan) or that the President isn’t a citizen.
If conservatives come to terms with the craziness now, and say “enough,” a lot of good things will happen. The Left let their crazies take over, and now can’t even implement their agenda with vast majorities in Congress. We’ll be sensitive to the needs of all Americans, aware of our own faults, and create an environment that generates statesmen.
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Great comment. Agree in full…
Thank you for writing! I’m exploring some of your older entries and finding this blog quite good reading.
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Joe, I don’t give idle warnings. You insulted me on my blog. Now your posts have been deleted, and so will future ones.
So you call people racists with blanket statements and yet you are the one insulted?
That’s rich.
People on this blog have said “Right wingers are RACISTS” and you endorse this rubbish.
I’m sorry, but did you cut this post since publishing? I seem to recall some comments left by McCain on some message board where he was posting under an alias?
Did I dream that or see it somewhere else this morning?
No, nothing was cut. The update was added. You probably saw that information on LGF. It’s accurate, I just left it out because I wanted to keep my post manageable in length. Read LGF for the rest of the story.
Ah – found it at LGF. Thank you.
Meanwhile, “Joe” tried to push another comment through, insisting that my very honesty and honor are at stake if I don’t reinstate his comments. For someone so passionate about honesty, it’s curious that he submitted his comments under a fake email address. Meanwhile, he calls me an idiot over at McCain’s blog. Yeah, “Joe,” you’re sooo welcome here…
A great post, and a great resource for those of us who want a big dose of RSM’s crazy in one place to refer to in the future. Cheers!
CJ is right on. These racists must be stopped. It is amazing how so much of the conservative “right” has turned racist since Obama was elected. Elect a black man and the racist tendencies come out overwhelming almost the entire conservative right.
Bob says:
September 23, 2009 at 3:48 pm
CJ is right on. These racists must be stopped. It is amazing how so much of the conservative “right” has turned racist since Obama was elected. Elect a black man and the racist tendencies come out overwhelming almost the entire conservative right.
——————————–
Oppose the Stimulus Bill and you’re a racist. Oppose the Health Insurance Reform Bill and you’re a racist. Quote or reproduce video of the president saying disturbing things and you’re a racist.
What isn’t racist these days?
Certainly not finding interracial marriages naturally revolting. That can’t be racist…
Asking “What isn’t racist these days?” is another sure sign of a racist. I hope you are proud of yourself. I’m sure your parents are.
So far, I haven’t seen ONE solid proof, or even a circumstantial evidence that McCain made racist statements.
I HAVE seen, though, Killgore’s racist/race baiting tyrade at Hotair, a pretty moderate site which was picked up as a high profile target by Charles and Killgore. And Charles approved of it, even wink-winked him publicly.
I do believe my own eyes more than to Charles or to Southern Poverty Law Center, or other radical left race baiters. So sue me for being a fact lover.
lol at you calling Hot Air a moderate site.
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I noticed racist comments on Hot Air many months ago…especially in Michelle Obama related topics.
I had no idea Michelle Malkin and her bloggers associate with creepy racist groups.
Can anyone recommend a site that isn’t associated with such bigotry?
Little Green Footballs looks like a winner to me. I’m a newbie to these sites but since I’m not hateful, I don’t fit in at Hot Air or Malkin. I guess I’ll have to wait until that site allows registration.
>>”Little Green Footballs looks like a winner to me.”
Yes, I’m sure it does, Kilgore. I’m sure it does.
I am(was) beekiller from Hot Air, you moron.
…and now “Mark/beekiller” on kejda.net.
yays!
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